Curse

Damon Windwalker · Aug 02, 2005, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by fubar121

Ok so they are selling there time. But you get the GOLD which is as i read it still property of anet. Anyone a lawyer? want to clarifiy the eula? about selling the time spent getting gold. I not a legal smart person but as far i can see the gold is still property of anet is it not?

If they are selling their time spent, then I want an acounting of the exact amount of time spen to get the gold - that way I can determine which of these "subcontractors" is giving me the best return on my investment

Nokomis · Aug 02, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanato

its kind of hard to go after the people themselves, since they're selling the "time they put into aquiring the gold" and not the gold itself. the best they can do is have ebay shut down those auctions

If these people are selling their time and effort, are their profits not subject to income tax?

--Nokomis

Die_trying_inc · Aug 02, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Everyone who criticizes people for ebaying items in any game has abseloutley no right, nor justification. You can't tell a person that what they're spending their money on isn't worth it. Worth is a subjective term at best, Dictionary.com defines worth as "1.The quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable
2. Material or market value" When you put it into those terms, these pixels are actually "worth" a whole lot, as they are valued by many. The only people who can tell someone that it's wrong in this case is an Anet employee.

You can't tell me not to take a video game seriously because the Video Gaming Industry is a multi-billion dollar industry. Hell, the internet gold industry is a multi-million dollar industry. That, is some serious business my friends.

Besides, this is more than just a game. Video games, and MMO's in particular are lifestyles and communites. You're not just buying a cd and a manual when you buy a $50 game. You're buying a ticket into another world, into a whole new community.

I am eighteen years old. I have two jobs and work roughly 65 hours a week. I play World of Warcraft, I play Guild Wars, I play Battlefield 2, and thats just to name a few. Now, what does this have to do with me ebaying?

The fact of the matter is, that I just DO NOT have enough time to grind for, (I'll quote the OP) 30 hours to get 100k. 100k is probably four times what I'd actually need so 30/4=7.5hours=$1. thats $1 for roughly 7.5 hours of work. for 7.5 hours of grinding killing the same mobs over and over again when i could be questing and trying to level up actually having fun.

My opinon is biased though. I bought the 100g, (I'm sorry, the time spent to get the gold ;-) ) for my mount in World of Warcraft, and in my opinon it's the best $13.49 I've ever spent.

I do sympathize however, that it destroys the "economy"(there I go taking a game seriously)but that's just the nature of the beast. The problem is not the people who buy gold off ebay. The problem is people who buy TOO MUCH GOLD

MSecorsky · Aug 02, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokomis

If these people are selling their time and effort, are their profits not subject to income tax?

--Nokomis

Most of them are out of the US, sweatshop environs in China or the like.

Jetai12 · Aug 02, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo02

don't ever use real life money to buy pixels. Not worth it.

Especially on a night like tonight where black dye sold to the NPC vendor put 8+ plat in your inventory.

beautifly put

Dax · Aug 02, 2005, 05:23 PM // 17:23

It is pretty lame to buy gold especially for GW. The game hasn't been out that long and people are already crying about how long it takes to grind to get something.

The way I look at it is your basically buying a way not to play the game, considering you spent 50 bucks to play in the first place you'd want to get the most out of it.

Mesmerized · Aug 02, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

i think its pathetic how you see clean max def shields going for 3k+ just because they look like a skull, when a max def regular looking shield with amazing mods, no one pays even 500g for.. maybe its just my bad luck

and yeah ive been tempted to buy 100k off ebay and that stuff.. but hell, 100k isnt going to get you anything anymore.. you see kids selling their max damage storm bows with +4 defense (wOoooooOOoo!) for 100k+ecto.. and i end up selling my clean one that no one wants to the trader so i can afford another ID kit

i think economy sucks right now, and for those who dont want to spend the time farming and getting nothing or ebaying.. they're pretty much screwed.

idk, thats my 2 cents.. /commence flaming

Dax · Aug 02, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

...but then again everyone complains when GW nerfs something because of bots. Which is the way ebayer get thier gold. Does anyone see the irony here?

Damon Windwalker · Aug 02, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

...but then again everyone complains when GW nerfs something because of bots. Which is the way ebayer get thier gold. Does anyone see the irony here?

yes. the irony is that when you decrease the availability of something, you make it more valuable - and therefore, you increase the demand to the commercial farmers. Ironic that by trying to get rd of them, they are making them more necessary.

Dax · Aug 02, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

yes. the irony is that when you decrease the availability of something, you make it more valuable - and therefore, you increase the demand to the commercial farmers. Ironic that by trying to get rd of them, they are making them more necessary.

Not only that but everytime someone gives these guys money, you are paying the very same people who are screwing up farming. Since most places were nerfed due to excessive botting anyone who buys gold is essentially supporting them.

Asplode · Aug 02, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

...and the authorities in China don't know or care?

MSecorsky · Aug 02, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

...and the authorities in China don't know or care?

Of course not. Different culture, different (or missing) labor laws.

Aracos79 · Aug 02, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

...and the authorities in China don't know or care?

More likely the later... so long as they are getting their cut, like any other government. Cross their palm and you can get away with murder. :P

Red Sonya · Aug 02, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

Oh there are plenty of things they could do in that direction if they really wanted a money sink. You could have melee weapons decay through use, forcing you to go to a "smith" character to have them repaired... which would cost money of course. You could do the same for armor as well. Casters could be forced to buy reagents and spell components. And of course the aforementioned arrows for archers. Glad ANet didn't go that direction though... that would be damn annoying. :P

That's a GREAT idea for a money sync, I've always believed in decaying weapons and armor. Damn GREAT idea, make it so A-Net/Devs.

Red Sonya · Aug 02, 2005, 09:02 PM // 21:02

I guess we could make the game for Americans only, that would solve some of the legal issues.

And poor ole china would be left out in the cold. No IP addresses from China allow.

Die_trying_inc · Aug 02, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

Not only that but everytime someone gives these guys money, you are paying the very same people who are screwing up farming. Since most places were nerfed due to excessive botting anyone who buys gold is essentially supporting them.

thats the thing though, this is a PVP-BASED game not RP. Most people are here to fight each other, not dragons. rofl.
If you want a game with PVE only go play WoW.

Dax · Aug 02, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Die_trying_inc

thats the thing though, this is a PVP-BASED game not RP. Most people are here to fight each other, not dragons. rofl.
If you want a game with PVE only go play WoW.

Umm...aside from the fact that PvP is just one aspect of the game, it doesn't negate the fact that by buying gold off someone else you're screwing up the game by subsidising the very people who make it more difficult to make money.

So are you saying since its PvP it's ok?

..and actually I do play WoW as well.

Orochim4ru · Aug 03, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

The problem is not the people who buy gold off ebay. The problem is people who buy TOO MUCH GOLD

So you're saying that buying X amount of gold is fine, but if you pass a threshold X+Y things become different? Wait wait wait: you admitted that buying gold ruins the economy, and thus forces people to buy gold to avoid grind, yet you also maintain that if you buy gold once, it isn't a problem?

I'm sorry, I just don't get your argument; its not like people are buying 100M on ebay.

Die_trying_inc · Aug 03, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dax

Umm...aside from the fact that PvP is just one aspect of the game, it doesn't negate the fact that by buying gold off someone else you're screwing up the game by subsidising the very people who make it more difficult to make money.

So are you saying since its PvP it's ok?

..and actually I do play WoW as well.

How do these people make it difficult to make money?
That's why the entire world is instanced.. so that thier not farming your spot.
I believe you mean that they make it harder to purchase your equipment.Well, in a way then, aren't you raising their prices buy buying from them anyway? the more you buy the more gold they're going to want to make: Greed will make prices go up be it botting farmer or legit player selling the item. And if the prices go up wouldn't it in a way be easier to make gold, seing as how you can sell your items for more?

I understand that buying gold gives an unfair advantage, but what do you call player A getting 10 hours a week more playing time than player B. Player B is at a disadvantage to player A, therefore he logically tries to balance that out. I am player B.

When the prices go up it forces people to farm longer for gold/that particular item.. My point is that I don't have time to do either, so I buy the gold to buy the item. I'm sorry if you disagree with this, but in my mind, it makes perfect sense, I do agree with you in a sense though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orochim4ru

So you're saying that buying X amount of gold is fine, but if you pass a threshold X+Y things become different? Wait wait wait: you admitted that buying gold ruins the economy, and thus forces people to buy gold to avoid grind, yet you also maintain that if you buy gold once, it isn't a problem?

I'm sorry, I just don't get your argument; its not like people are buying 100M on ebay.

Yes, thats exacly what i'm saying, and when you put it into those terms it's very contradictory, but so is the legit players' argument; see my above reply to Dax.

Feel free to reply guys.

Dax · Aug 03, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Die_trying_inc

How do these people make it difficult to make money?
That's why the entire world is instanced.. so that thier not farming your spot.
I believe you mean that they make it harder to purchase your equipment.Well, in a way then, aren't you raising their prices buy buying from them anyway? the more you buy the more gold they're going to want to make Greed will make prices go up be it botting farmer or legit player selling the item. And if the prices go up wouldn't it in a way be easier to make gold, seing as how you can sell your items for more?

I understand that buying gold gives an unfair advantage, but what do you call player A getting 10 hours a week more playing time than player B. Player B is at a disadvantage to player A, therefore he logically tries to balance that out. I am player B.
Feel free to reply guys.

I screws of farming (hence making money) for the rest because the drop rates have been nerfed most likely due to botting (mostly by gold sellers)....that's why.

Does someone who plays more have an advantage? Yes, but it's not an unfair advantage. Would you think it's ok to cheat if you couldn't spen enough time playing too? Seriouly, it's only logical that someone who spends more time in a game is probably going to accomplish more..... the game isn't that hard though.